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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
336
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Posted - 2014.03.23 20:46:00 -
[1] - Quote
I disagree with there being no way of knowing whether there is a new sig or not. If "defenders" are on the ball and actively looking for incoming wormholes, they should be allowed to find them. Such blanket delay would also make seeding practically uncounterable.
imho the delay should be on the overlay and self-populating sig list, not when using probes (5-15 minutes?)
More helpful would be automatically spawning both sides of new holes, ie. no "not warping to the static" to keep K162 unspawned.... and delayed appearance in local when exiting a wormhole to nullsec, pretty please.
W-Space Realtor |
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
340
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Posted - 2014.03.23 21:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
This change would also allow safely rolling new statics you dont like. Imagine some "farmers" roll into some "pvpers". Currently, the "pvpers" have chance to scan the hole and ambush those "farmers" when they try to roll this unwanted static. Proposed change would give them perfectly safe window to crash without any possible interference. So this cuts both ways and one of them is making certain things safer, not riskier.
W-Space Realtor |
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
355
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Posted - 2014.03.24 12:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
1) It is great that CCP is paying attention to WHs and want to make them better.
2) The immediate and automagical propagation of new signatures needs to go, at least in Wspace. This where the delay should be. They should still appear eventually, because its a nice user-friendly thing and we need that to increase the WH population, but they should not appear instantly.
3) Forced delay even when using probes is a bad idea because it prevents people from gathering information even through their own active endeavour. In sum: passive intel is bad, active intel is good. This is why we hate local so much - you dont need to do absolutely anything and it serves you perfect and up to date intel which cannot be avoided. And it is also why we respect combat scanning - its a learned skill that requires effort and patience and can be countered by vigilant victims, so the scanner actually needs to be good to succeed.
4) Delayed signature appearance would favour existing strong groups over smaller ones. WSpace should reward being sneaky and clever, not about getting advantage through numbers by arbitrary mechanics. This would also hurt groups in lower WH classes.
5) Proposed change would make seeding and quick defensive rolling uncounterable and usually even undiscoverable - again hurting active players. I'm especially worried about the rolling part. Engaging someone who just connected to our hole and wants to get rid of it is already very difficult and has very short time window. Preventing us from seeing it and scanning the connection altogether would make it nigh impossible and would make defensive rolling perfectly safe - which is very very bad. Wormohle pvpers do not find their content only in their static, we need incoming connections with which to interact as well.
6) This gets me to the overall aim of the proposal. It seem to be tailored towards ganking c5/c6 escalation runners but it is very narrow and without consideration to both other activities and to other WH classes. Imho the real problem of the often mentioned ease of avoiding pvp in wspace is NOT seeing the new connection (esp. if their automagical apperance on the overlay gets fixed) but how easy it is to get rid of it.
Rolling wormholes with capitals is just too safe, too risk-free. This is what I think needs adjusting. People who want to avoid pvp can currently simply isolate their system from other players and prevent interaction. And even if new connection spawns, unless its already bubbled (which shows enemy presence and removes any surprise) they can simply warp their rolling fleet to 0, jump in, jump out, and its done. Only possible counters are cloaky carrier and/or crossjumping T3 blob and getting trapped, which is less than ideal and highly disproportional.
Wormholes need more interaction between all kinds groups, not giving one of them advantage. We need more connections between all classes and we need those connections to be more risky (but not more difficult) to sever. We need it to be more difficult to isolate yourself, not to actively defend yourself from people you might meet. There were already suggestions for multiple static C4s, more roaming connections, making K162 sides spawn automatically without the need to warp to the sig, even spawing extra connections to wormholes with current sleeper kills. Add to that some new mechanic for riskier rolling (like the warp-in deviation increasing with ship mass I suggested earlier, or anything else) and you have a very good WH shakeup. All these would I think be much better for fixing the "pvp avoidance issue" without collaterally screwing someone or something else up.
W-Space Realtor |
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
359
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Posted - 2014.03.24 13:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
alex 121 wrote:-Æ-¦-Ç-à-â-ê-¦-â -+-+-ë-¦-¦-+-¦ -å-¦-+-+-ç-¦-+ -Æ-Ñ -+-¦-+-+-+-¦-¦-é -Ç-â-ü-ü-¦-+-¦ -ü-+-+-¦-ë-¦-ü-é-¦-+. -í-+-ï-ü-+-¦ -ç-é-+ -é-+ -+-¦-ü-â-¦-¦-¦-é-î -é-â-é, -ü -é-¦-+-+ -¦-é-+ -¦-+-¦-¦-é -¦ -ü1--ü3 -+-¦-é http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_mDTLphIVY
W-Space Realtor |
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
363
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Posted - 2014.03.24 16:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ali Aras wrote:A mass/time delay would resolve the following issues a time-only delay leaves unsolved:
Carebears can't roll their holes in perfect safety. If a hole is time-limited only, some carebears good with rolling ships can hop in and out inside the timer, and the hungry PvPers they've inadvertently rolled into have no opportunity to attempt a gank or slip a scanning alt through. It wouldnt. Sig would show only once the caps jumped through and the residents would need to: notice it, scan it, warp to it, scout it, put fleet together, jump through <- all that before the crashing capitals jump back through the K162 and close it behind them (which takes roughly 2 seconds). I dare say its not very likely.
But you are correct that the other issues would be alleviated somewhat. It would also force people to use covops for scouting fresh holes instead of T3s, which im not sure if its good or bad...
Either way it doesnt really address more fuddamental needs and all the other (much less controversial) suggestions which I summed up in my wall of text about the need for increased interaction instead of isolation.
W-Space Realtor |
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
379
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Posted - 2014.03.28 13:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
So how long do have to wait for a minor change (delayed automagical wh sig popup)? 5 expansion cycles?
W-Space Realtor |
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
381
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Posted - 2014.03.28 22:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rroff wrote:Alternatively in C5/6 space make it so the next incoming wormhole spawns on grid with the most recently escalated site (or random selection if theres more than one recently escalated) would make things a bit interesting hehe. oooh, on-grid WH.... theres an interesting idea...
W-Space Realtor |
Axloth Okiah
Future Corps
Sleeper Social Club
381
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Posted - 2014.03.29 08:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Rroff wrote:Alternatively in C5/6 space make it so the next incoming wormhole spawns on grid with the most recently escalated site (or random selection if theres more than one recently escalated) would make things a bit interesting hehe. yeah, im sure that's exactly what people want, to scan a new WH, jump through and be in the middle of 20 sleeper BSs and a half dozen hostile dreads.... ffs, use your brain.
on behalf of SSC, i can honestly say we would want that...
But seriously, its a quirky mechanic to be considered in some form. Maybe add some trigger into escalations that has a chance to open a hole between escalated grid (100-200km?) and some other random hole of the same class?
W-Space Realtor |
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